Posted by CommonSense Crusader on July 18, 01 at 00:33:04:
In Reply to: You know nothing! posted by Tree Hugger on July 17, 01 at 18:24:25:
Why do you eco-nazis continue to come over here and try to piss on our parade?
Why do you even VISIT our forum...just to piss yourself off?
And why do you bother to POST to it? Do you really think you're going to enter a forum full of Suburban lovers and change anyone's mind? We've weighed and balanced our vehicular needs and considerations and made our decisions. Many of us own multiple vehicles, for the very reasons you cite. All of your whining is not going to change our needs, wants and priorities. Ultimately, only economics will do that.
I don't go into the eco-nazi forums and try to convince everyone to buy a diesel Suburban and find 8 other people to rideshare to work...although that would do FAR more towards cutting pollution in the short term, than ANYTHING you have to offer.
You're not a crusader, you're a sh*t-stirrer. Do you also butt into conversations you overhear on the street between strangers, and tell everyone they're wrong? If you're not that rude on the street, why are you that rude on this forum?
Your whiney little "victim" mentality is wearing pretty thin on those of us who prefer to think things through and make rational decisions.
>> Actually, most of the FREE world is increasingly opposed
I'd like to know where you get this curious statistic you cite. Actually, most of the FREE world AGREES with me. Developing and third world countries could give a crap about the environment; they just want to improve their standards of living. As for the first world, many countries have developed and implemented a lot of great technologies, and have made great strides that we will eventually emulate, as soon as the petro-lobbyists no longer have a stranglehold over our government. The technology is there...and it will take hold, as soon as it is economically feasible to do so.
Make no mistake...the US' slow development towards "clean" technologies is an economic decision, not an environmental mistake. Much of other countries' pressures on the US are either political or economic and have little to do with making the world "cleaner and greener." Either they want to reduce our economic advantages and make us less competitive, or they simply want to sell us their technologies. If they don't like our pollution policies, why don't they punish us; say, by imposing trade embargos upon us? They could cut our exports by 80 percent, and thus our petroleum usage by a third, overnight! Hint: 'Cause money talks, and BS walks.
>>to your "right" of unecessarily
So now YOU get to decide what's necessary?
Who elected you God?
How arrogant can you get?!
And where did I say it was my "right" to drive such a versatile vehicle as a Suburban?
I said I WANT to, i.e. it is my CHOICE.
You whiners are REAL big on "rights,", aren't you?
ESPECIALLY your "right" to step on my CHOICES, based on nothing more than your AGENDA, CAREFULLY SELECTED STATISTICS, WEIRD SCIENCE, and SOUND BITES from other agendists. All of which were present in that unimpressive, unspecific, eco-nazi agendist magazine article link you posted.
For example, the article you cite COULDN'T BE more agenda biased.
It lines up:
Bush, who visits Europe this week for a Group of Eight summit, reaffirmed his dim view of the Kyoto pact, which he says is based on dubious science and would hurt the economy.
Against:
Environmental activists who say the Kyoto accord is crucial to saving much of the planet's coasts and islands from drowning as greenhouse gases trap the sun's warmth and so threaten to melt polar ice caps.
Gimme a break! Dumb old BUSH, all alone, vs. all the world's environmental activists? How about the other 90 percent of the scientific community who think that the global warming theory is BS! You don't think Bush has any other opinion input on this subject?
Man melting the icecaps? Gimme a break! You ever hear of the ice age? Global climate changes have been occuring all by themselves, since the earth began, without any help from us. And they will continue to occur, whether we do anything about "global warming" or not. We can't stop it, any more than we can stop volcanic eruptions or hurricanes. It's nature at work.
Oh, no...no biased reporting there...!
>>polluting our collective air.
Thank you, you just made my point.
Did you happen to see that hour-long John Stossel special report (you know, the "give me a break" guy on Network TV) about three weeks ago, about how the eco-nazis are brainwashing our kids into thinking that the air and water are getting dirtier, and that pollution is rampant, when most reliable statistics indicate otherwise? Or that despite the claims of the global warming idiots, our planet is cooler (by a LONGshot) than it has been in most of its multi-billion year history? Or the interviews with scientists that believe that the one-degree increase in temperature predicted by most global-warming chicken-littles means that Siberia will go from an average temperature of, say, -32 to -31 degrees (something like that?) Or that nine out of ten scientists in that particular field of research think that the global warming theory...and it IS a theory...is BS?
(I recorded this show; post your address and I'll be glad to send you a copy)
>> Phoenix is now a brown cloud of smog, affecting people's health. So is your right to drive a schoolbus greater than people's right to breath cleaner air?
Like I said, you can quote statistics in support of ANY agenda. Why do you choose to see only those that support your wacky agenda, like Phoenix? Because it's EASY to make a biased, uninformed, emotional plea and get a knee-jerk reaction from other armchair agendists, who are either too lazy, or just plain dishonest, to look at ALL the statistics, even those that DON'T support their agenda.
I just heard similar statistic TODAY on the radio...the air in LA is getting BETTER! And it's already DRAMATICALLY better than it was 10, 20 and 30 years ago, even though there's more cars on the road there now. Know why? Because of government organizations like the AQMD. Now the AQMD is no great prize, they make some pretty stupid decisions. But at least they TRY to apply technological and and logical solutions to social problems like smog, and the conflicting ECONOMIC interests that create it. They're making a lot of headway. They've also jacked up the price of fuel in CA by about a third to a half more than the rest of the country. The same sort of solutions that could be applied to the up-and-coming smog capitals like Phoenix and Fresno, if they put their minds to it.
Balancing complex economic and social interests is a VERY complex job, not easily solvable by simplistic solutions like yours; i.e. "just drive a smaller car!"
And for better or worse, the AQMD only has LOCAL authority. A national policy ultimately has to come from a national authority. And as long as economics (read:lobbyists) controls Congress, that ain't happenin'. I just thank God the eco-nazis don't have a stronger hold in our government than they do, as is the case in many European countries. Overall, this country is doing pretty darn well in fighting smog; in most places where smog is a problem in the US, it's mostly a local one.
Is there work to be done? YOU BET!
Will it be done by whiners like you telling people on Suburban chat boards to drive smaller cars?
What do YOU think?
Nevermind...ignore that question...sorry...I forgot for a moment...you DON'T think.
>>Maybe today, but in time I think that will change through tougher emissions requirements for this ridiculous monstrosity so many of you bring into our city streets.
Actually, this is one of the few areas where we agree, at least a little. But...there you go ruining any little shred of credibility you have again...by name calling. The last resort of the agendist...no facts to back you up? Attack the person...call them a name...make SOME sort of emotional plea! Ridiculous monstrosity, huh? Go home and preach to your choir. People on this board drive Burbs for their safety and versatility, load capacity, towing capability and myriad other reasons, few of which are present in whatever Yugo clone you choose to drive. But here's the kicker, Sherlock, and the thing you don't (won't) seem to understand...those things are IMPORTANT to us. If they're not important to you, then fine...go home, and drive your Yugo clone. Just stay away from this board...it'll only piss you off.
Would I like to get better mileage? You bet.
(Although frankly, I think that 171 passenger miles/gallon isn't bad to begin with.)
Will I get better mileage one day? Yes I will.
When? When Detroit puts out a vehicle that does all that my Burb does, and gets better mileage.
When will that happen? When Detroit has the financial incentive to do so.
I believe that jibes with your "tougher emissions requirements" statement above. It's working for passenger cars, even large ones...they get considerably better mileage and emit fewer pollutants than they did even just a few years ago, in no small part due to government emissions requirements. (Translation: financial incentives.) Cars also cost many times more to buy, adjusted for inflation, because of the extra engineering that must go into them to meet the requirements. Ultimately, this is an engineering problem. The demand for cars of all kinds and sizes will continue, and Detroit will keep meeting demand...REGARDLESS of what kind of car YOU think other people should be driving.
The ultimate solution will be an economic one, as it MUST in a democratic and capitalist society. Hell, I would have GLADLY tried one of GM's EV1's in a heartbeat, except that I read that they cost $650 a month to operate! Quite simply, the cost of operating a petro-fueled vehicle will become higher than the cost of operating alternative fuel, or "clean" vehicles. Sooner or later we'll be paying $5 or more a gallon, like they do in Europe, to support their environmental "solutions" and to discourage the use of petroleum products. The petro-infrastructure will lose its stranglehold on our economy, and cleaner and renewable fuel technologies will start gaining steam.